IOTW CD 232.2

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CD 232.2 - Insulator of the Week on Mon, 20 Oct 2008

Nickname

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Related Patents

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Details

The recent price guide delta that Bill put together prompted me to write this unsolicited "insulator of the week". (by Lee Southern)


Embossing: (F-Skirt) HEMINGRAY - 513 (R-Skirt) MADE IN U.S.A./[Numbers and dots]

Colors: Clear

Comments

This insulator was listed as a CD 232 until it's discovery in 1999, too late to be included in the 1999 price guide. There was a CJOW reporting this find in October 1999.

This insulator was subsequently added to the 2003 price guide in the $400-$500 range, but in the 2007 guide it's value had plummeted by eight ranges to just $100-$125:

[1]

This insulator is mentioned brifly at the nia.org, hemingray.info and hemingray.net web sites:

According to hemingray.net, there are less than 6 known.

A search in the Insulator Picture Poster reveals just two pictures of this insulator:

If this insulator is so scarce, why did the value drop so much? While it may not be the prettiest insulator around, surely there should be enough demand by both a Hemingray specialist and a general CD# collector to warrant a higher value?

These brief comments on the Insulator of the Week are not intended to be complete and are presented to stimulate and encourage discussion and additional information from ICON. Now it's your turn to share info and/or post a photo of your favorite CD 232.2's!

Questions

None

Discussion

Bob Stahr commented on Mon, 20 Oct 2008

There are certainly more than 6 known. This piece was originally lumped in with CD 232 and no indication of the taller neck was ever noted until enough people asked. Woody subsequently decided to assign another CD to it. (it wasn't a new discovery as these pieces have been in the hobby for years).

Back when it was classified as a lowly 232 they were priced in the $3 to $5 range I believe. In fact, I think I sold a few way back when at that price. I was shocked when the price guide came out with them at $400-500. I wouldn't be surprised if they drop even below the new $100 values. How many people on this list have one?


Bill Meier commented on Mon, 20 Oct 2008

This insulator was not actually "discovered". It had been known for years, and always classified as a CD 232. Probably the CJ article gives a little more history, but some collectors noted that it was "different" than the other CD 232's, as you can see from this picture:

PicturePoster #217786536

Mr. Woodward felt this difference was significant enough to assign it a new CD number.

So, it was just reassigned a new CD. Note that all HEMINGRAY-513 (the dash form rather than the D-513 form) are this CD 232.2 variety. Probably the newest one made.

They are uncommon. Or, perhaps the case is that they are overlooked... At first glance, (and second!) it looks like a CD 232... a clear insulator with little value.

Price? well, that's always interesting... I suspect more are known to exist, and/or more would be known to exist if more people looked more closely!

But, with prices in general... I think a good example is a CD 239.2 KIMBLE-850-1 (only come in clear) ... only two are known... Price guide is $5,000 - $7,500 ... why isn't it $20,000+ ? ... With an insulator that rare, sometimes the PG reflects what it may had sold for years ago, as there isn't much metrics for value. In fact, ten years ago only one CD 239.2 was known to exist... The 1995 Price Guide lists CD 239.2 as $2,500 - $3,000 and that was when only one was known...

CD 141.9 Emmingers have actually gone down in value, from $20,000+ to $15,000 - $20,000 ... and there are a number of them around. Probably more that the CD 232.2 in fact...

I know one reason the price dropped between 2003 and 2007 ... a number of people who had them couldn't sell them in the $400-500 range! So... as you can see from the PG, and the above sale listing, in fact, they are in the $100 range...


Also remember that John McDougald personally prices thousands of insulator listings for each PG. He can't track the value and/or rarity of every insulator... Yes, he does get input from other collectors and dealers.

I suspect there are just some pricing mysteries that will never be explained. In this case, with the CD 232.2 I do know the price was market driven... The few who had them and were trying to sell them in the $400-500 range could not... No demand, regardless of the rarity....

Perhaps something that also affects the rarity and perception of a CD, is that this is not a "new" insulator, but just a CD reassignment of an insulator that has been known for decades. In the 1991 Price Guide, it was listed as $3-5 as a CD 232 !!

I also think because of this CD reassignment, perhaps not as many people are aware it has even changed... Yup, HEMINGRAY-513, same as HEMINGRAY // D-513, CD 232 ... (however it's not the embossing that makes it rare, it's the fact that embossing is only found on the CD 232.2 ...)

I'd bet a couple of people on ICON have a CD 232.2 thinking it's a CD 232 ... perhaps even more!

Bill

P.S. Note the value of leaving "For Sale (Sold)" items in the PicturePoster and not deleting them? ... if the seller deleted the item after it sold, rather than moving it into this other folder, we wouldn't have this great comparison shot...


Bill Meier commented on Mon, 20 Oct 2008

I have owned two over the years. One was damaged, and the second I got from Bob Stahr in 1994 before they were assigned a new CD... For me at the time, it was an embossing variant. I don't have a purchase price, because my notes said it was part of a trade... I'm sure it was under $10  !!

Mine is mold 2 year 1947, production year 1948

This means there is a 2-47. {Note period}

If you have one, report the mold & date code i.e those "[Numbers and dots]"


Bob Stahr commented on Mon, 20 Oct 2008

Mine is an 11-47. (so also one period)


Justin Martin commented on Mon, 20 Oct 2008

mine is a 1-47. (also one period) I got mine at the portland national.


Bill Meier commented on Mon, 20 Oct 2008

Note already, we have three different molds... 1, 2 and 11... there should be lots out there!!!


Chris Hedges commented on Tue, 21 Oct 2008

My thought would be the upper wire grove was modified to accomidate " Preformed" wire ties for conductors. The " preformed" was an Industry trend starting in the 50's. I do not know the date on the piece but I would bet it was manufactured after that time .


Bill Meier commented on Tue, 21 Oct 2008

This is a catalog cut, but note although this applies to the CD 232 I suspect the CD 232.2 would be similar

Hemingray Bulletin

This Bulletin D-1 is dated circa 1933, about 15 years before the date codes of the CD 232.2's that we are seeing.

The "D" on many of these Hemingray styles stands for "Distribution line insulators". I suspect with newer models, the "D" was dropped. There are other examples.

It would seem that the CD 232.2 with the elongated neck would have increased the leakage distance slightly.


Bill Meier commented on Tue, 21 Oct 2008

The information so far indicates these were made in just 1947 and 1948. I don't think the upper wire groove (since it's a saddle top insulator) really changed. Just that the neck is longer.

Chris, do you think this comparison would be motivated by the change you suggest? [2]

I'm not sure it does.

I can see a switch from a rounded groove to a square groove, as they switched to flat ties. CD 121 > 122, CD 152 > CD 154, CD 214 (rounded groove) > CD 214 (square groove), etc.


Christian Willis commented on Tue, 21 Oct 2008

I also have a CD 232.2, mold 11-47. (1948 production): [3]

P.S. Not to take this off subject, but has anyone seen the CD 238 Hemingray - - 514 [020]? (F-Skirt) HEMINGRAY - 514 (R-Skirt) MADE IN U.S.A./[Number] (Note the [Number] only, not [numbers and dots]. I'd love to see this piece if anyone has one...


John Rajpolt commented on Wed, 29 Oct 2008

I was the successful winner of the one in Ray K's auction. It is a '2-147.' also...


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